Curse

Manic Smile · Jan 17, 2006, 12:25 PM // 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

I got that idea from years of gaming, your mileage may vary. In games that ID'ing an item meant something beyond a personal convenience those magical ID'd properties did not exist until you Id'd it. For one thing it kept this sort of thing from happening.

Many times that is because to activate the item you had to know the key...be it a word, action, thought, or situation; however, the item itself was always magical or not. This is classic D and D...many games do as you said, have no effect until iding but old school pnp D and D does not and as far as I'm concerned that's nuff said. If you're looking for computer game examples how about Baulder's Gate...Torment...BG2...frankly as far as I'm concerened Diablo 2 or say FF11 (both wich do it the no effect till ID way)don't stack up. What's more fun/sensical; having to run to town to id that sword to use it as a sword or test that scroll and get cursed because you didn't id it.

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Originally Posted by strcpy

Same thing I did above. Lets assume for a minute that this game is Real Life. You are walking along and find a sword stuck in a stone, curious you pull it out and wave it about. It feels like a normal sword - after all that's what you take it for. You notice that it has a nice cut to it and look rare, probably magic, but until you know how to take advantage of it you can't. After taking it around for a while you find a magick indetifier who, for some fee, notes that it grants you +infinite health and now you are the greatest warrior in the land (or who ever you sell the sword too us since you tell them the secret also).

In real life(suspend your disbelief) however say you didn't id it but you go battle this monster and you know kinda how much damage you can take and suddenly you get "spiked" for more and live and wonder wtf? That is what I mean. Maybe the life could be there and be masked...don't know how A.net would do that but my point is simply that if the magic doesn't require a key to activate...as in it's always active...then it's always active...id or no id.

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Originally Posted by strcpy

What I wrote, I think, makes sense from this point of view. Given how important unlocks are in this game, given that the only happen (in PvE) from ID'ing a blue or better item, I assumed that you could not tell the stats from an un-ID'd item - it seemed obvious that it was ripe for scamming. Once I realised this I assumed that most un-id'd sales were scams.

Don't get me wrong I'm very much for them fixing this and stoping the scamming as I'm completely for fair play. I'm only saying it would be nonsensical for A.net to make you id for you to know it's stats. Perhaps A.net will feel stopping a scam > relating to real life...I'd be fine with that. I would much prefer some other manner of fixing this.

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Originally Posted by strcpy

For most games that have something like unlocks that's the way it has worked. For things like DnD where this is a foreign concept it tends not to, but then DnD isn't the whole gaming world by any stretch of the imagination. Even then there have been quite a number of DnD games where ID's worked such that you didn't get the bonus until you ID'd it.

Call me bias but pnp D and D is my scale of quality. If I can roleplay in a game as well or better then a pnp session...think the first time you played Planscape Torment all the way through...with more depth and realism then that is a quality game. I know this isn't exactly a RPG but why throw away realism when you do not have to.

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Originally Posted by strcpy

Woa there, I did not mean no unlocks in any case - I meant purchasing the mod didn't unlock it - same mechanics as purchasing runes. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Of all the complaints I've read the rune unlock system hasn't been part of it so I will assume you thought I meant no unlocks at all. Personally I don't care too much about unlocks other than the cost incurred (cost for un-id's items) - however you want to handle them is fine by me. I only PvP with my PvE chars and am mostly PvE - the main thing I use unlocks for is to pay attention if I need to re-evaluate my build for a new skill I know nothing about or add the next better item mod to my weapon

(well, sorta, but you get my drift on that). That statement I made was weak (with respect to how much I want it, was trying to keep some balance based on my experience) to begin with.

Hopefully this made sense - it was late when I posted the first message, even later now.

as far as I know runes and mods are treated the same way...must id to unlock for pvp

Over all this I really just want to focus on this: A.net SHOULD do something to stop people from being able to scam others in this manner. I would like them to find another way then making you have to id a weapon for it's magic abilty to work...unless it is roleplayed into the item somehow...as I am for as much "realism" in a game as possible.

Sab · Jan 17, 2006, 03:08 PM // 15:08

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Originally Posted by Akhilleus

i personally know of over 2 dozen people who have reported it, and again, all he had to say was that its possible, listing the details was unneccisary.

Wouldn't listing the details would provide the developers with a better idea of how to fix it?

Saider maul · Jan 18, 2006, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

i too think it needs to be nerfed, but i think you should be banned for making it public.
this is used for 1 purpose and 1 purpose only; people selling unid weapons sell them knowing they are worthless.

How and why do ya find it morally ethical to purposly rip people off.
This type mentality is why the economy is the way it is.

I say bring out the nerf bat and hit a home run.

chris_nin00 · Jan 18, 2006, 02:35 AM // 02:35

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Originally Posted by Saider maul

How and why do ya find it morally ethical to purposly rip people off.
This type mentality is why the economy is the way it is.

I knew I shouldn't have come here...

*Runs into the room and screams*
WWJD!!!!!!
*Runs out*

That's how I deal with my affairs

Saider maul · Jan 18, 2006, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris_nin00

I knew I shouldn't have come here...

*Runs into the room and screams*
WWJD!!!!!!
*Runs out*

That's how I deal with my affairs

Ya wanna make gold make a 55 monk ya wanna try to make more go green farming. Don't like pve and want money go to hoh.

Ripping people off is not proper. would you like it done to you. Those who sell worthless unided items are no better then botters who sell gold on ebay then drive the market sky high in hopes ya buy more. Theirs a word for this its called monopoly and is illegal under any national law other then in communist
Countries. Practice a lil bit of ethics.

Manic Smile · Jan 18, 2006, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saider maul

Ya wanna make gold make a 55 monk ya wanna try to make more go green farming. Don't like pve and want money go to hoh.

Ripping people off is not proper. would you like it done to you. Those who sell worthless unided items are no better then botters who sell gold on ebay then drive the market sky high in hopes ya buy more. Theirs a word for this its called monopoly and is illegal under any national law other then in communist
Countries. Practice a lil bit of ethics.

er...scaming = bad but this is in no way a "legal" monopoly...you can farm it yourself, hence you don't have to buy it from them to get hence no monopoly

Gildor Took · Jan 18, 2006, 03:22 AM // 03:22

all i have to say is

wild blow

you deserve to know how to test unid weapons if you can figure out what i mean

mattjones527 · Jan 18, 2006, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Can anyone confirm that testing un-id weapons still even works. I was doing a couple FoW chest runs today, and I just did a quick test for any hp mods. 2 weapoins in particular, I checked a staff and a sword, by equiping them of course. There was clearly no hp added, however when I ID'd them they had hp mods in the 20s. Can someone explain why they didnt show the +HP while they were un-identifed.

strcpy · Jan 18, 2006, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic Smile

Many times that is because to activate the item you had to know the key...be it a word, action, thought, or situation; however, the item itself was always magical or not. This is classic D and D...many games do as you said, have no effect until iding but old school pnp D and D does not and as far as I'm concerned that's nuff said. If you're looking for computer game examples how about Baulder's Gate...Torment...BG2...frankly as far as I'm concerened Diablo 2 or say FF11 (both wich do it the no effect till ID way)don't stack up. What's more fun/sensical; having to run to town to id that sword to use it as a sword or test that scroll and get cursed because you didn't id it.

That is personal opinion. "old school" D&D isn't anywhere close to the whole gaming world (not even in the "Old School" time period before CRPG's when it was only one of a few). There are lots of other games out there, many I've liked as much or better, many I have not. Some would say Daiblo and FF are much better than the ones you listed. Personally I liked them all about the same.

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In real life(suspend your disbelief) however say you didn't id it but you go battle this monster and you know kinda how much damage you can take and suddenly you get "spiked" for more and live and wonder wtf? That is what I mean. Maybe the life could be there and be masked...don't know how A.net would do that but my point is simply that if the magic doesn't require a key to activate...as in it's always active...then it's always active...id or no id.

I understodd your intent before, you asked for clarification on mine. The story was meant as a allegory to the way I see the game should be working, thus you can't use magical properties until you know how (as in ID them). It's my world and it works the way I want.

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Don't get me wrong I'm very much for them fixing this and stoping the scamming as I'm completely for fair play. I'm only saying it would be nonsensical for A.net to make you id for you to know it's stats. Perhaps A.net will feel stopping a scam > relating to real life...I'd be fine with that. I would much prefer some other manner of fixing this.

And I'm saying it's a made up world - there is nothing nonsensical about anyway they want to do it. If you have to fight through 50 mursaat and meditate for 10 real time hours with a minimum of 20 hullking stone elementals attacking you (with the timer resetting if any less than that do) to use an items properties how can you say that is nonsensical? Not fun - yes, but not the way it would really work? It's thier world and it works in the way they want it to.

When you play D&D's Planescape setting do you complain it's nonsensical? By the rest of D&D (especially "old school" D&D - though I guess it depends on what you mean by "old" - some now would call 3 "old") it is *very* much so. Of course, given that was the intention and it is a made up world who am I to say it's wrong?

Not to mention D&D' Wish, Fly, and several other spells.

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Call me bias but pnp D and D is my scale of quality. If I can roleplay in a game as well or better then a pnp session...think the first time you played Planscape Torment all the way through...with more depth and realism then that is a quality game. I know this isn't exactly a RPG but why throw away realism when you do not have to.

Planescape never felt that real to me, I like the story but as I pointed out above the whole world is so nonsensical it's like reading something someone wrote on an acid trip. Lets face it, the whole thing about the main character in it was nosensical. That's fine, I like that type of game also. For me the best CRPG was Betrayal at Krondor

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As far as I know runes and mods are treated the same way...must id to unlock for pvp

Yes, but there is no mod trader that I know of, hence why I said I wanted one but it wouldn't unlock anything. This is probably the best solution IMO.

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Over all this I really just want to focus on this: A.net SHOULD do something to stop people from being able to scam others in this manner. I would like them to find another way then making you have to id a weapon for it's magic abilty to work...unless it is roleplayed into the item somehow...as I am for as much "realism" in a game as possible.

Just as in PST you obviously roleplayed something far far far away from any reality I know of. Even further than almost any other D&D campaign setting or other RPG's. It just so happens that you liked those things and don't this one - that has nothing to do with how well one can role play it. I can do so just fine, other RPGS do so just fine, other people beside me do so just fine. We all have things we like and don't like, things we roleplay easily and not easily, but it is kinda arrogant to think that you have the One True Answer that all will follow (unless, of course, you are the God of Roleplaying, but I doubt that very much).

Plus I don't see any other way to to make magical modifers not be visable until ID's than to, well, not make them visable until ID'd. The other option is that equipping a weapon ID's it, but that is an alternate method of ID'ing something. I suspect that this would break things such as ID kits (still need them for armor/rune unlocks) and be worse down the road. This would also go further from your "Make it like D&D" idea than having the properties not work until ID'd.

You should be happy then about the D&D MMORPG being made - then you can quit GW and not have the risk of having to try and roleplay the unthinkable and impossible like not having magical weapons use thier magical qualities unless ID'd

Maxiemonster · Jan 18, 2006, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Does this "trick" work on shields too? Since I have 2 unidentified golden Eternal Shields, required 8, which I'm definitly not identifying if this "trick" works on shields too.

Gildor Took · Jan 18, 2006, 09:34 AM // 09:34

yes it works on shields

Manic Smile · Jan 18, 2006, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

That is personal opinion. "old school" D&D isn't anywhere close to the whole gaming world (not even in the "Old School" time period before CRPG's when it was only one of a few). There are lots of other games out there, many I've liked as much or better, many I have not. Some would say Daiblo and FF are much better than the ones you listed. Personally I liked them all about the same

fair enouh, there's gurps and special off the top of my head(for RPGs) but the attention to detail..as much or as little as you want...that's what makes D&D or any of those others so well done...but I admit it's all my opinion...i've never said otherwise

D2 and FF11 to some extent were fun but they were limited in their scope...hack and slash...I mean come on how do they compare to the scope of Never Winter Nights(player build mods not the 1st player)...and if you don't agree that's fine I really don't mean to come off as insulting

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

And I'm saying it's a made up world - there is nothing nonsensical about anyway they want to do it.

don't really agree with that but short of some kind of case by case analysis I can't really say how something is a product of good imagination vs. nonsensically created to make the game work...i can give an example though, rez shrines...need them in some format but makes little sense in most cases. I liked PT because dieing was worked into the game in such a way as to make sense(or at least you can see the attention of the designers to make it...sensical for a lack of a better word) and still function.

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

Not fun - yes, but not the way it would really work? It's thier world and it works in the way they want it to.

true but I (yes it's a personal opinion) hate when games put something in for function and put no roleplaying aspect into the game as to why it functions that way...the less of these things there are the better (again IMO)

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

When you play D&D's Planescape setting do you complain it's nonsensical? By the rest of D&D (especially "old school" D&D - though I guess it depends on what you mean by "old" - some now would call 3 "old") it is *very* much so. Of course, given that was the intention and it is a made up world who am I to say it's wrong?

it was a made up world and very strange but pretty much everything had a reason for being why it was

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Originally Posted by strcpy

Not to mention D&D' Wish, Fly, and several other spells.

wish is fun...more for when it goes wrong

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Originally Posted by strcpy

Planescape never felt that real to me, I like the story but as I pointed out above the whole world is so nonsensical it's like reading something someone wrote on an acid trip. Lets face it, the whole thing about the main character in it was nosensical. That's fine, I like that type of game also. For me the best CRPG was Betrayal at Krondor?

acid trip....true very true but I guess that's why I liked it but everything was logical if a tad trite(the memory thing) and definately strange

BaK = very fun too

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

Yes, but there is no mod trader that I know of, hence why I said I wanted one but it wouldn't unlock anything. This is probably the best solution IMO.

agreed and hopefully they will do that but most people buy weapons in the hope of getting the non upgradable mods...the +15% damage or 10/10 for real cheap there would still be unid trading...hence my suggestion to add a unid merchant as well like D2 had

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

Just as in PST you obviously roleplayed something far far far away from any reality I know of. Even further than almost any other D&D campaign setting or other RPG's. It just so happens that you liked those things and don't this one - that has nothing to do with how well one can role play it. I can do so just fine, other RPGS do so just fine, other people beside me do so just fine. We all have things we like and don't like, things we roleplay easily and not easily, but it is kinda arrogant to think that you have the One True Answer that all will follow (unless, of course, you are the God of Roleplaying, but I doubt that very much).

fair and I dont' mean to come off arrogant...PT was just an example, I've actaully roleplayed D&D with low magic very close to reality in PnP and no, no goldly powers here...and I don't dislike GW just the devs having to change this to stop scamming...i'm for nerfs and so far the nerfs have been for the benefit of logic...aoe causing mobs to run away; or have no effect on it at all...changing how skills work

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

Plus I don't see any other way to to make magical modifers not be visable until ID's than to, well, not make them visable until ID'd. The other option is that equipping a weapon ID's it, but that is an alternate method of ID'ing something. I suspect that this would break things such as ID kits (still need them for armor/rune unlocks) and be worse down the road. This would also go further from your "Make it like D&D" idea than having the properties not work until ID'd.

they could just have the mods take effect without showing them...i.e. do more damge but only show the non modde damage...or have more life but not show the added life from mods, so you would notice the effects if you looked really hard but it would be near impossible to calculate the mod on the weapon...just some code change in how numbers are displayed...easier I would imagine then writing a new trader

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

You should be happy then about the D&D MMORPG being made - then you can quit GW and not have the risk of having to try and roleplay the unthinkable and impossible like not having magical weapons use thier magical qualities unless ID'd

and you're on my case for arrogance...meh...no roleplaying in GW really...feel free to disagree(but I'm fine with that)...and I'll stick to NWN 2 and forget the MMORPGs all together...but I'll still play and like GW

Manic Smile · Jan 18, 2006, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattjones527

Can anyone confirm that testing un-id weapons still even works. I was doing a couple FoW chest runs today, and I just did a quick test for any hp mods. 2 weapoins in particular, I checked a staff and a sword, by equiping them of course. There was clearly no hp added, however when I ID'd them they had hp mods in the 20s. Can someone explain why they didnt show the +HP while they were un-identifed.

here's hoping they did something

strcpy · Jan 18, 2006, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic Smile

fair enouh, there's gurps and special off the top of my head(for RPGs) but the attention to detail..as much or as little as you want...that's what makes D&D or any of those others so well done...but I admit it's all my opinion...i've never said otherwise

You have, in that you declared anything else wrong. "I don't like" and "That is wrong and nonsensical" are two different beasts. You recognise it when I do it (and, for some of those cases it was my intention), just see it in your self too.

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D2 and FF11 to some extent were fun but they were limited in their scope...hack and slash...I mean come on how do they compare to the scope of Never Winter Nights(player build mods not the 1st player)...and if you don't agree that's fine I really don't mean to come off as insulting

I guess it depends. NWN was, IMO, one of the best done RPG's in ages - it's not really a fair comparison. I don't think it was because of the D&D liscense - I much prefer the 2E stuff, but how open ended they made everything. Morriwind was another example, though possibly too open ended.

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I liked PT because dieing was worked into the game in such a way as to make sense(or at least you can see the attention of the designers to make it...sensical for a lack of a better word) and still function.

This was essentially my point - I found that to be really contrived. Yes, it logically worked (just as one can make the un-ID'd items not giving thier magical bonuses logically work). I didn't raelly like except for the times that I took advantage of it in amusing ways. I much prefered a real death penalty given how the game tried for "reality" as much as that planescape universe would allow. I never really felt the need to not die - something which the character *should* have felt given that his memory was going - I still knew everything I did before.

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true but I (yes it's a personal opinion) hate when games put something in for function and put no roleplaying aspect into the game as to why it functions that way...the less of these things there are the better (again IMO)

My point is that it is not really that clear where that line is. Using PST again - did the death thing *really* add to the roleplaying? Or was it to adress the complaints in other D&D games where death was more permanent? I suspect a little of both, I was never a fan of death in other D&D (or wizardry) games in that it was too permament. PST went the opposite way and made it too easy for me to really roleplay. Yes, the story line helped, but like the story helped in the others too I didn't really like it.

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it was a made up world and very strange but pretty much everything had a reason for being why it was

Many of which were created by the players doing "role playing". Something that can easily be done if my suggestion were to be the case (but since Anet doesn't seem to care, I doubt it).

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wish is fun...more for when it goes wrong

Very much agreed - it's what really seperates CRPG's from P&P and can be quite a large amount of fun. Especially given what casting it costs. But it fails the "nonsensical" meme and is still roleplayed to quite a large extent (and is probably some of the best RPG stuff in the game if done right).

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BaK = very fun too

It got me to read all his books. Still one of my favorite series, though I've liked his last two books the least. Magician was great and the Serpent War series is also very good.

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agreed and hopefully they will do that but most people buy weapons in the hope of getting the non upgradable mods...the +15% damage or 10/10 for real cheap there would still be unid trading...hence my suggestion to add a unid merchant as well like D2 had

You can still get the +15>50 in all but the Axe (us axe warriors get no love, though the +15 while enchant works very well for my farmer) and the 10/10 would be a tradable "sundering" mod. If PvP people fell for it, given how easy faction is to unlock them vs. the amount of gold needed too (assuming a trader), then it's thier own fault.

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fair and I dont' mean to come off arrogant...PT was just an example, I've actaully roleplayed D&D with low magic very close to reality in PnP and no, no goldly powers here...and I don't dislike GW just the devs having to change this to stop scamming...i'm for nerfs and so far the nerfs have been for the benefit of logic...aoe causing mobs to run away; or have no effect on it at all...changing how skills work

Amusingly enough the PST comment came before reading the whole post and getting to the PST stuff you said. I didn't really figure you meant too - just that you are judging everything by a very specific standard that many do not adhere too. I like D&D and see what they have done for RPG's, yet they have many problem IMO.

My point is that almost anything can be roleplayed if you are not fixed on a specific idea. I don't mean that in that a world can be logically incoherent, but to judge GW because it doesn't make sense in D&D, well, doesn't make sense. GW is it's own game - it would be a shame to judge D&D based on GW if that was the path you went from also. The un-ID'd change would be hard in D&D, but in GW it logically makes, at least, as much sense as not doing it. I would argue, given how the economy ended up working that it makes *More* logical sense for it to work that way. Right now, from a role playing point of view, you can know you have a +30 hp mod, use it - benfit from it, but not really know it is there until you apply an ID kit to it (assuming that unlocks have a RPG sense of "knowing"). That makes little internal sense.

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they could just have the mods take effect without showing them...i.e. do more damge but only show the non modde damage...or have more life but not show the added life from mods, so you would notice the effects if you looked really hard but it would be near impossible to calculate the mod on the weapon...just some code change in how numbers are displayed...easier I would imagine then writing a new trader

Ultimatly if the mods take effect then they will be noticeable. There is no way to hide something that has a visable effect. You may make it harder to discern, but that doesn't really do much (given the damage/health calues there is no way to hide it to the point that it is too hard to figure. At the least they will figure out that killing a grawl in two vs three shots means X and so forth). You have an either/or situation. It either doesn't show or it does - there is no in between.

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and you're on my case for arrogance...meh...no roleplaying in GW really...feel free to disagree(but I'm fine with that)...and I'll stick to NWN 2 and forget the MMORPGs all together...but I'll still play and like GW

HAHA, that's why the smiley was there

I'm actually kinda looking forward to the D&D mmorpg. It may let me down quite a bit, but I can always hope. If it does, as you say, there is always NWN and NWN 2. I didn't want the above to be taken too harshly and I knew it came off as such - I have many a friend that we have (of course geeky) discussions about this sort of thing. I'm always the "let it all hang out" person and not strict at all. To me, fantasy is fantasy and who can say what is right and wrong in a made up world as long as it internally works out? Even if it isn't anywhere close to what I like.

Manic Smile · Jan 18, 2006, 01:01 PM // 13:01

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Originally Posted by strcpy

You have, in that you declared anything else wrong. "I don't like" and "That is wrong and nonsensical" are two different beasts. You recognise it when I do it (and, for some of those cases it was my intention), just see it in your self too.

Fair enough, they are all personal judgements but, though I may have failed, I tried to give some backing that could be common ground...I admit I really didn't worry too much about any of as it's like 2 am here and was yesterday too.

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Originally Posted by strcpy

I guess it depends. NWN was, IMO, one of the best done RPG's in ages - it's not really a fair comparison. I don't think it was because of the D&D liscense - I much prefer the 2E stuff, but how open ended they made everything. Morriwind was another example, though possibly too open ended.

aside from perhaps a special(Fallout) or gurps(any PC games with this?) base what other universe could you see running something this broad? I'm not saying a game has to be D&D to be good(I loved Arcanum and Lionheart to some extent[1st half]) but "I feel" it makes a good standard, though we seem to disagree how strongly it should apply and that's fine.

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Originally Posted by strcpy

This was essentially my point - I found that to be really contrived. Yes, it logically worked (just as one can make the un-ID'd items not giving thier magical bonuses logically work). I didn't raelly like except for the times that I took advantage of it in amusing ways. I much prefered a real death penalty given how the game tried for "reality" as much as that planescape universe would allow. I never really felt the need to not die - something which the character *should* have felt given that his memory was going - I still knew everything I did before.

Do you remember the party where it is explianed that you will no longer forget for whatever reason and that ecah time you die someone dies in your place? Those reasons worked enough for me...even if they were contrived the game provided reasons. And in the endgame when you die you lose party members. The idea was also to put the player in the weird ass situation of not fearing death so much...sometimes death helps was a selling point of the game if I remember...wow this is totally tangent so I think I'll stop after this post

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

My point is that it is not really that clear where that line is. Using PST again - did the death thing *really* add to the roleplaying? Or was it to adress the complaints in other D&D games where death was more permanent? I suspect a little of both, I was never a fan of death in other D&D (or wizardry) games in that it was too permament. PST went the opposite way and made it too easy for me to really roleplay. Yes, the story line helped, but like the story helped in the others too I didn't really like it.

agreed in single player games you die and reload but that breaks the roleplaying somewhat and in multiplayer games you have systems that rez you and are somewhat lacking...there really doesn't seem to be a way to make it all "nice" but death is an extreme case

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Originally Posted by strcpy

Many of which were created by the players doing "role playing". Something that can easily be done if my suggestion were to be the case (but since Anet doesn't seem to care, I doubt it).

there's always chap 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

You can still get the +15>50 in all but the Axe (us axe warriors get no love, though the +15 while enchant works very well for my farmer) and the 10/10 would be a tradable "sundering" mod. If PvP people fell for it, given how easy faction is to unlock them vs. the amount of gold needed too (assuming a trader), then it's thier own fault.

true but all the money is in the skin...most unid trading worth anything...over 2-5k is of rarer skins, as much as I use all blues that's not going to change the unid trading market...people want a way to gamble on rare items...really really rare items...everybody knows powerball

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

Amusingly enough the PST comment came before reading the whole post and getting to the PST stuff you said. I didn't really figure you meant too - just that you are judging everything by a very specific standard that many do not adhere too. I like D&D and see what they have done for RPG's, yet they have many problem IMO.

again fair enough but D&D is to RGP as Tolken, Akira, Asimov...blah blah...but forget all of it I understand your point and concede it's only a matter of preference

I would storngly prefer them to find another way around fixing this scam...how's that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

My point is that almost anything can be roleplayed if you are not fixed on a specific idea. I don't mean that in that a world can be logically incoherent, but to judge GW because it doesn't make sense in D&D, well, doesn't make sense. GW is it's own game - it would be a shame to judge D&D based on GW if that was the path you went from also. The un-ID'd change would be hard in D&D, but in GW it logically makes, at least, as much sense as not doing it. I would argue, given how the economy ended up working that it makes *More* logical sense for it to work that way. Right now, from a role playing point of view, you can know you have a +30 hp mod, use it - benfit from it, but not really know it is there until you apply an ID kit to it (assuming that unlocks have a RPG sense of "knowing"). That makes little internal sense.

if D&D is the standard I've made it out to be crosswise comparisons would only be fair but it's mute...and I agree it's too easy to know hp and energy mods the rest take some work though

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

Ultimatly if the mods take effect then they will be noticeable. There is no way to hide something that has a visable effect. You may make it harder to discern, but that doesn't really do much (given the damage/health calues there is no way to hide it to the point that it is too hard to figure. At the least they will figure out that killing a grawl in two vs three shots means X and so forth). You have an either/or situation. It either doesn't show or it does - there is no in between.

it's not about stopping it from ever being found out it's about making the scamming so hard to do that joe schmoe won't do it...just like drug laws are not really expected to "stop" drugs, just make things harder and less prevelent. If they did as I suggested I bet in all but the most "too much time on their hands" people wouldn't bother.

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

HAHA, that's why the smiley was there

I'm actually kinda looking forward to the D&D mmorpg. It may let me down quite a bit, but I can always hope. If it does, as you say, there is always NWN and NWN 2. I didn't want the above to be taken too harshly and I knew it came off as such - I have many a friend that we have (of course geeky) discussions about this sort of thing. I'm always the "let it all hang out" person and not strict at all. To me, fantasy is fantasy and who can say what is right and wrong in a made up world as long as it internally works out? Even if it isn't anywhere close to what I like.

I know you weren't serious about the last part. Whatever they decide on it i'll still love the game but I'ma have to grumble some...yay for being a hypocrite...been ragging on the anti nerf farm guys all week.

Saider maul · Jan 19, 2006, 02:36 AM // 02:36

I'm saying people use this technique mostly to rip people off. You shouldn't the game isn't especially easy to honestly make gold (lol) But Everyones able to make more then they need easily without blaitently ripping people off and knowing their doing it. The only thing I have to actually work for is ecto and shard for fissure armor and thats more time consuming then actual work sense in the right co-op is easy.

I do wish they would add some kinda delay (1-3sec) to aoe triggers though,Or just remove zelots from list. can only heal so much before ya tap yourself and have to keep spending nrg to do it. no different then an attack.

Akhilleus · Jan 19, 2006, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saider maul

How and why do ya find it morally ethical to purposly rip people off.
This type mentality is why the economy is the way it is.

I say bring out the nerf bat and hit a home run.

before you critisize me, learn to read.
i was accusing him of enabling scammers to be more rampant, and that the knowledge he provided will only serve to allow even more people to abuse this technique.

i should mention, however, that he has regained some respect points in my book for deleting the details.
i think whats important is that people know that its possible to determine an items mods without IDing it, i just dont think they need to be told how...
that would be like alerting people to the problem of bankrobbers...by instructing them on how to successfully rob a bank.

Shamus Sureblade · Jan 19, 2006, 09:10 PM // 21:10

I agree with most everyone here, that this practice should be nerfed.
However, I think that anyone with half a brain could have figured out how to do it once they knew it was going on.

Fatty Fatty Boomballati · Jan 20, 2006, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentAssassin

ppl who buy un-id stuff are just stupid...

I would not put it that way as he said above people are just trying to get lucky

Also this is fun it is gambleing and it can make you money.

Manic Smile · Jan 20, 2006, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatty Fatty Boomballati

I would not put it that way as he said above people are just trying to get lucky

Also this is fun it is gambleing and it can make you money.

Jeeze i can't say this enough...make a trader for unides...then only the salers are hurt but who cares...